seem to have got the clones knot, worked on the roll stitch
first I used the red thread from yesterday, about pearl 8;
here, the body (bottom) is more like a 2.5 (top). This is why the roll/crotat needles help I suppose. The top needle is a 2.5 tunisian. I used this with a thicker thread
The trick for me appears to be more about manipulating the hook and loop through the others. These rolls are more relative in width to the overall fabric than the earlier ones.