rolling rolling rolling

seem to have got the clones knot, worked on the roll stitch
first I used the red thread from yesterday, about pearl 8;

the main problem here is the width of the loops which is due to the needle having a very thick middle compared to the 1mm head

here, the body (bottom) is more like a 2.5  (top).  This is why the roll/crotat needles help I suppose.  The top needle is a 2.5 tunisian.  I used this with a thicker thread

and I could easily get ten loops on.  I have been pulling the  yo loop tight against the crevice in the hook.

 this pic from a great site called pattern making
  The trick for me appears to be more about manipulating the hook and loop through the others.  These rolls are more relative in width to the overall fabric than the earlier ones.